Tuesday, 14 August 2007

Tired Labour Needs Reinvigorating - Huw

The news today is that Huw Lewis is attempting a come-back from political exile. He has brought out a pamphlet proposing an examination of the state of the Welsh Labour Party, saying that it is "not fit for purpose". He has tried to emulate Charles Clarke's proposal for a 20/20 vision of new "New Labour", but this time applied to Wales, and entitled "Wales 20/20". He is trying to court the unions and the disparate socialist groups.
Let us have no illusions about his motives. His position within Welsh Labour is now one of redundancy as a result of his opposition to the "new dynamic" of Rhodri Morgan and Ieuan Wyn Jones. Huw Lewis has aligned himself with the wrong section of the party, those who have been designated "yesterday's men" and "dinosaurs", despite his protestations that he is creating a new vision for Labour. It is quite apparent that he feels rejected by his compatriots in the Assembly and his reaction is to criticise his party and come up with his half-baked radical proposals to reinvigorate Labour. The Welsh Labour party has no use for the likes of Huw Lewis, and we can name others in Wales and Westminster who share his distorted vision of the future for Wales. His ideas will make no difference to the progress of devolution and the march of progress. His vision and that of his disgruntled comrades is not a 20/20 vision, that is for sure.


Robbie Clifton said...

How about reading the thing before unleashing the obligatory pro-Plaid tirdae? Pathetic.

johnny foreigner said...

Alan says....

"...those who have been designated "yesterday's men" and "dinosaurs",...."

johnny says....

Yes, Alan, designated by you.

Your patient pal.


Maxx said...

Possibly the most pathetic drivel I have ever had the misfortune to read in my life, mate. I've yet to read the essay / publiaction, and might not get around to it. I will, however, refrain from commenting on it as a result. Get a life.

alanindyfed said...

I assume you are talking about the drivel Huw Lewis wrote, not my own.
"Yesterday's Men" (JF) is not my term; Adam Price coined it (and it applies). "Political 'dinosaurs'" comes from the BBC. Again very apt.
Better that you do not associate yourselves with these backward-thinking politicians.

Welsh Spin said...

I'm sure Welsh Labour will pay your views on it's organisation and strategy the attention they deserve!

I guess the train of thought runs "well if Plaid are worried enough to spend their energies rubbishing Huw's pamphlet rather than questioning where 'Choosing Scotland's Future' leaves their whole Parliament for Wales strategy, then he must be onto something!"

alanindyfed said...

What he is on to is picking up the threads of his career no doubt, and retrieving his tattered reputation among his fellow antediluvians.
You're right, Plaid now has to concentrate on Scotland's document and stimulate a similar Conversation within Wales.

johnny foreigner said...

Alan says....

"You're right, Plaid now has to concentrate on Scotland's document and stimulate a similar Conversation within Wales."

johnny says....

Slight problem there Alan.

You will insist that the conversation revolves around the Welsh language. Whereas the canny Scots have abandoned all linguistic demands and move forward.

Ipso facto, the 'conversation' is doomed.

Your pro tem pal.


alanindyfed said...

Welsh is the national language.
English is the international language. Simple as that. A bilingual policy with equal status for both is all that is required. Naturally it will form a part of the Conversation but it does not have to be a divisive issue. We are indeed fortunate to have it, a rich element in the culture.

Anonymous said...

Nice to see we got Plaid worried already!

alanindyfed said...

Plaid is always on the alert to refute inane remarks by those who are out of touch with political reality.

johnny foreigner said...

alanindyfed said...

"Plaid is always on the alert to refute inane remarks by those who are out of touch with political reality."

johnny says....

I do hope that you are not referring to me!

If you are, kindly enlighten me as to which remarks you consider to be inane and I will rebut.

Alan also said...

"Welsh is the national language.
English is the international language."

So you say. Unfortunately, not many people are really interested in speaking Welsh. In the modern world it is virtually impossible to converse in Welsh without resorting to a generous sprinkling of English, consequently most of us are quite happy to leave things as they are.

In fact, is Welsh really the 'national' language? It's merely a version of Brithenig (Brythonic) the original 'national' language, and seems to be the 'version' that the Nationalists prefer. How many of you speak Brithenig? Not many, I'll bet.

Face up to it Alan, while you continue to inflict your linguistic demands on the majority of us, your dreams of Welsh 'independence' will remain just that, dreams.

Incidentally, which version of Welsh do you prefer? North or South?

You continually refer to the Scots as your template for Welsh self-determination.

As you are aware, Gaelic is the 'national' language of Scotland. Of course and again, no-one is sure which version is preferred, Highland or Lowland.

The ever pragmatic Scots saw the clear divisions that the language issue caused and abandoned any linguistic demands and consequently gained a mandate.

May I respectfully suggest that you do the same. You never know your luck.

Please be assured that these linguistic demands will be the rock that nationalism perishes on.

You may be surprised to know that many are supportive of more self-determination for Wales but as soon as they see how much Public Money is spent on propping up what is, in effect, a dying language they back away.

The language is clearly unable to sustain itself without public subsidy.

Presumably, you and your pals would seek to perpetuate the Welsh subsidy culture in your nationalist dreams.

Hardly a basis for 'independence'.

Your pointed pal.


Anonymous said...

I'm sorry Johnny but your comments about the Welsh language are just wrong. To say Welsh is only a branch of another language is wrong. It has developed into a fluent and modern language, outliving and outperforming it's equal Celtic dialects.

Many people feel more comfortable expressing their selves through Welsh and I'm sure many more would given the opportunity to actually develop Welsh fluently in their own environment.

And to say Welsh is only able to sustain itself with public subsidy is just silly. English would not survive in all areas where it is not publicly subsidised through the education system and publications etc.

Welsh deserves public subsidy now especially after the years it has been suppressed by government, especially during the Victorian era.

johnny foreigner said...


I did NOT say that Welsh was a "branch" of any language. As you say, it has developed. It has developed from Brithenic.

English does not need 'subsidy'. It is the lingua franca of the UK and self perpetuates. It is the language of choice of the overwhelming majority.

Welsh is a minority language, spoken by few. In fact there are probably more Bengali speakers in Wales than Welsh.

For those who feel more "comfortable" speaking I would say please carry on, just don't expect ME to pay for your comfort. Pay for it yourselves.

I can hardly see any English speaking families preferring to speak Welsh. Why on earth would they wish to do so?

Welsh is clearly an inferior language and is too simplistic for modern day usage. Just compare the relative sizes of the English and Welsh dictionaries. The "Welshification" of English words seems to be the only way forward for Welsh and it will eventually evolve into a patois. e.g. English, "bicycle", Welsh, "beic". Do me a favour.

Your last two paragraphs are somewhat contradictory.

You say that my statement that "Welsh is only able to sustain itself with public subsidy" is silly.

The next paragraph then demands public subsidy as a result of some perceived Victorian suppression.

So what! That was then, this is now. Move on!

I suppose you'll be asking for compensation next.

Your pawky pal.


alanindyfed said...

JF : your problem seems to be that your English dictionary is always stuck open at the page beginning with letter "p".
Better to try a Welsh one, and learn something!