Friday, 29 June 2007

Unhelpful Blogging

Trawling the blogs it is evident that there are a number of bloggers who are making what I consider to be unhelpful remarks regarding the dialectical inclinations of Plaid Cymru members and the way in which the party defines its dialectical position. In my opinion the issue is not whether Plaid is a leftist party or a rightist party, or even whether it is in the centre of the political spectrum. The issue and priority always was and always will be the path to independence. When independence for Wales has been achieved Plaid's role will be over, and this is the time when the party should decide its political complexion, or whether or not it should disband. Any other talk is divisive and does nothing to further the cause of independence. In fact it is unhelpful as it distracts those who associate themselves with 'left' or 'right' wing politics from the main aim and primary function of the party. In my view, these concepts constitute the politics of the past century and a new era of consensus politics is dawning in Wales. Politically speaking, Wales leads the way, and there are many in Westminster who quite obviously hold to the antidiluvian thinking which divides one from the other and perpetuates the political status quo.

18 comments:

Ordovicius said...

and this is the time when the party should decide its political complexion, or whether or not it should disband.

But it already has decided. That is the problem.

gwe said...

I don't consider debate to be unhelpful. If we are to form a new nationalist discourse, how can we do that without a frank exchange of views?

Plaid cannot wait until Independence until it choses its political complection. It has, for good or for worse, positioned itself on the 'centre-left'. It has no choice but to take a position, because it needs concrete policies for the here and now, as well as a long-term goal.

Odovicius has argued powerfully for more than one nationalist party. I agree that, sooner or later, Plaid will not be the only nationalist party. It probably won't exist at all in the form we now know it.

The imponderable for me remains at what juncture will such a realignment be of most advantage?

alanindyfed said...

Ordo - but it doesn't have to proclaim its political complexion too loudly. Otherwise it attracts flak.

Gwe - No, I don't say healthy debate is unhelpful. I just want to point out the above. I also want to allay calls for division. I still say 'united we stand'.

Anonymous said...

"When independence for Wales has been achieved Plaid's role will be over, and this is the time when the party should decide its political complexion, or whether or not it should disband. "

This shows you've been out of the country too long. What utter rubbish!

Do you really want to reduce Plaid down to a pressure group to make it into a new Welsh Labour?

Really, I think Plaid will have to look into who and what you are pronto. Any lunatic with education can start a blog and join a political party to cause mayhem. And I'm afraid that's what it seems you are doing.

Ordovicius said...

I don't consider debate to be unhelpful. If we are to form a new nationalist discourse, how can we do that without a frank exchange of views?


Quite. Not rocking the boat does not lead to a mature political stance.

Ordo - but it doesn't have to proclaim its political complexion too loudly.

It's been pretty deafening as of late.

alanindyfed said...

Mayhem is your interpretation, nobody elses. Do you criticise Adam Price?
My views are not dissimilar to his.

alanindyfed said...

Anon criticises me for rocking the boat (causing mayhem) and Ordo says
not rocking the boat does not lead to a mature political stance.
Ach-y-fi!

Anonymous said...

alanindyfed said:

"Do you criticise Adam Price?"

Adam Price is not an AM.

I am criticising you. Do not try and divert.

I did mean mayhem, not rocking the boat. Both the sort of behaviour practised by attention seekers to see the effect they cause.

Garenig said...

We determined a long time ago that given its history it was inevitable that the bulk of this nation's population would express itself in developing policies describable as centre left. We considered that the community based behaviour with which many of us had grown up was a form of socialism and so voted for the inclusion of the word socialism on the then membership card. It was felt by campaigners in the eastern coalfield that such a declaration would help them explain the party's stance to electors subjected to Labour propaganda. Gwynfor declared his support for the description and the proposal carried after a fractious arguement. There was no mention of Adam's Sardinian.
At the time party conferences where a running battle with points of order made from the floor during more or less every debate. Gradually the extreme left and the right drifted away leaving the centre left and centre. Conferences are much less stressful these days.
The welsh centre right is now beginning to make itself felt in what may yet become a Welsh Conservative party.

johnny foreigner said...

Well Alan.

I am still waiting for response to my posting on Betsan's blog. What's up? Cat got your tongue?

You have made personal remarks concerning MY loyalty to Wales on the basis of my non-nationalist views.

You have also made the following statement on Betsan's blog which, to me, appears to suggest that if I do not agree with your nationalist viewpoint I should go elswewhere.

Kindly clarify this statement, particularly the last sentence, "Otherwise........"

"If he lives in Wales and wishes the best for Wales and its people and is at all concerned that together we can make a difference, let him remain here, to work for Wales. Otherwise........".

I sincerely hope that you are able to respond to this question as I have already been banned from Ordo's blog on the pretext that my non-nationalist viewpoint is "racist". Hopefully you will adopt a more mature attitude and publish your response.

Many thanks.

Your permanently positioned pal.

johnny.

Anonymous said...

alanindyfed said...
"Ordo - but it doesn't have to proclaim its political complexion too loudly. Otherwise it attracts flak"

You sure you mean that? All the action gone on in the Bay this last week must be kept secret so Jo public does not get to know what's happening?
It's the hot topic everywhere. Including the infiltration of lefties in Plaid in SW Wales.

Now howe are those gobby lefties going to deal with it?

Ordovicius said...

I sincerely hope that you are able to respond to this question as I have already been banned from Ordo's blog on the pretext that my non-nationalist viewpoint is "racist".

As usual, you are talking rubbish. You are banned from my blog for making racist anti-Welsh speaking comments in your usual attempt to troll threads. I dont entertain trolls, especially racist ones, its as simple as that. End of discussion.

johnny foreigner said...

Ordo, I have already asked you to repeat my alleged 'racist' remarks.

You cannot as there were no 'racist' remarks.

I merely object to having the language 'forced' upon me. Simple as.

Further, how can a remark like that be termed racist.

You are either a fool or a person of limited intellect to imagine that such a point of view is racist.

How can I be racist against myself.

Pillock!

I'm just as Welsh as you pal.

johnny.

Ordovicius said...

E-n-d o-f d-i-s-c-u-s-s-i-o-n, Johnny "I'll pretend to be Welsh" Foreigner. Im not a baby sitter, so run along, little troll.

alanindyfed said...

Perhaps I should add to "Unhelpful Blogging" : "Unhelpful Comments".
I think we should be respectful towards fellow bloggers and not throw brickbats. Perhaps I am old-fashioned!

alanindyfed said...

To Johnny Foreigner :

"Otherwise.....he will not be helping to make the difference which Plaid hopes for and his contribution to Welsh life will be wasted." :-)
It is heartening to know that your loyalties are not in dispute and you do not in fact have racist views.
I think we need to define "nationalist". I think it means "creating the conditions for full nationhood" and that anyone who is loyal to Wales would naturally subscribe to the definition.
Apologies if I have misunderstood you.

alanindyfed said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
alanindyfed said...

Garenig,
Thank you for your remarks.
I would be interested to see the emergence of home-grown parties
and the disassociation of the present parties with their 'British' roots.
Plaid might still remain as a party after independence and I am happy that it should be on the centre left.